Family Crunch: Butterflies and Moths

[Alpharius]

We need to hammer out the basic statline of Butterflies/Moths, as well as figuring out what differentiates the various species, mechanics-wise. Species suggested so far include:

- Luna Moth
- Monarch Butterfly
- Atlas Moth
- Birdwing Butterfly
- Death's Head Moth

[Sasha]

Flight is obviously a must, as is some kind of bonus to sense of smell.
I was thinking that adding some kind of powder-based abilities wouldn't be out of place - maybe a mild poison or irritant?

[LeftBower]

Mild poisons, irritants, vision blockers, potentially healing too.

[Sasha]

Mild poisons, irritants, vision blockers, potentially healing too.

I like the idea of that! Maybe make 'em consummate alchemists, capable of distinguishing between different flower-based compounds and combining them in interesting ways.

They should be frail as hell, though, I think. Any opinion on whether we need to worry about statting caterpillars?

[LeftBower]

Caterpillars can wait, first and foremost we want to get the basics off the ground. Then we can expand into larval forms, etc.

[Naryzhud]

So what do we reckon on these powders then? Are the different effects each a separate ability? Is each type of effect an ability? Or is it just one universal ability that they can then learn different effects to use with? I'm feeling the second one is most sensible...

[Sasha]

So what do we reckon on these powders then? Are the different effects each a separate ability? Is each type of effect an ability? Or is it just one universal ability that they can then learn different effects to use with? I'm feeling the second one is most sensible...

I think second one does sound more reasonable - a simple ability, maybe with a very basic associated effect, and the ability to invest experience in upgraded abilities and levels of potency.

[BrokenMuse]

I've got a rough talent tree for the powder/spore abilities around here somewhere. If I find it I'll type it up. I think it was a mix between the two. You needed the basic "Powder" ability, then you chose different effects. Some I had written down were confusion-inducing, caused rage and healing. Then there were abilities that extended the range and duration of the effect, let you combine two effects at once and so on.

I think I had something similar to bardic singing from 3.5e written down. The butterfly/moth had to spend an action each turn devoted to keeping the effect going. Once they stopped, it lasted another turn or two before dissipating.

[Sasha]

I've got a rough talent tree for the powder/spore abilities around here somewhere. If I find it I'll type it up. I think it was a mix between the two. You needed the basic "Powder" ability, then you chose different effects. Some I had written down were confusion-inducing, caused rage and healing. Then there were abilities that extended the range and duration of the effect, let you combine two effects at once and so on.

I think I had something similar to bardic singing from 3.5e written down. The butterfly/moth had to spend an action each turn devoted to keeping the effect going. Once they stopped, it lasted another turn or two before dissipating.

That sounds great! I'd love to see it - maybe we should limit to a number of times per day based on some factor - if we have a "species" stat, maybe use that number as the limit, as well as perhaps a bonus to the effectiveness?

[BrokenMuse]

Can't find my notes (I seriously have more notebooks than a Creative Writing class) so I'm going off memory here.

All of the basic effect abilities are separate and only have some sort of species prereq. That prereq depends on how this power is skinnned: spores from a parasite/symbiont, magic, the butterfly/moth's scales or whatever.

Few of these abilities have any direct damage effect. Rather, they are more subtle, working to incapacitate foes indirectly.

All the abilities have the same strength, area effect and duration. Area is some sort of cone extending from the originator bug.

Abilities can be taken multiple times. Each additional level increases ability's potency.

Basic Effects:
-Confusing Cloud: All insects in the zone test using Int or Vit. Failure is some sort of confusion effect caused by a bombardment of conflicting chemicals in the air. Each round affected bugs can try to shake off the effect.

-Healing Spores: Insects in the zone gain back wounds equal to the ability's strength. This is a one-time effect. At higher levels it can heal greater damage and poisons.

-Enraging Spores: Pheremones that trigger an aggressive territorial response. Those in the zone must succeed on a save or attack those closest to the affected bug. May not work on some species without other traits.

-Invigorate: Boosts one physical stat temporarily. At higher levels gives better bonuses and possibly more than stat can be improved.

Kill Cloud: High-level stuff. Requires Confusion and Enraging abilities. Those affected go mad, leaving themselves open to deadly attacks, taking dangerous risks and so on. At higher levels, the affected bugs are attacked by their own bodies.

Improvements: These are abilities that improve the above.

Extended Duration: Each level of this extends the duration of a spore effect by one round after the insect stops maintaining it.

Hybrid Cloud: Two cloud effects can be used at once, operating at reduced strength (something like -1 level or 1/2 level?) Requires at least two Basic abilities.

Shape Cloud: Gives the bug some control over the way the spores move, increasing or decreasing the affected area.

Thicken Spores: Wind is an obvious obstacle, lessening a cloud's effectiveness. With this ability, the spores are less likely to blow away, avoiding penalties from the environment.

That sounds great! I'd love to see it - maybe we should limit to a number of times per day based on some factor - if we have a "species" stat, maybe use that number as the limit, as well as perhaps a bonus to the effectiveness?

The first use is "free:" the character can use that spore ability with no penalty. For each use past the first, the character needs to succeed on some sort of test against fatigue. There's a duration limit, based on some species stat; going past that also requires tests against fatigue.

That's my take on it. I think we want to avoid the problem of "Well, I used my abilities for the day. Guess I'll sit out for this fight."

[Quest Lord]

Can't find my notes (I seriously have more notebooks than a Creative Writing class) so I'm going off memory here.
The first use is "free:" the character can use that spore ability with no penalty. For each use past the first, the character needs to succeed on some sort of test against fatigue. There's a duration limit, based on some species stat; going past that also requires tests against fatigue.

That's my take on it. I think we want to avoid the problem of "Well, I used my abilities for the day. Guess I'll sit out for this fight."

This part in particular looks good. Vancian spores seems like a silly approach to me. It also encourages creative uses of spores, since you'll have some abilities that you haven't used yet, and some that you have, so the unused abilities might not be as useful, but will definitely go off.

The test could be against Vitality, but be relatively easy to pass since butterfliues and moths will have less vitality. Possibly it could be using intelligence instead or an inverted Chitin test (so you must roll over your stat, meaning less armoured butterflies will be better. Adds incentive to keep your moths and butterflies fragile.

[Naryzhud]

I like the reverse chitin idea, not so much because it makes in game sense, just more as an incentive to be lightly armoured... Could be fluffed to be something like chitin covers up spore producing areas? And then you can have people who want to go halves and be ok at fighting with a few spore effects to throw around occasionally...

Broken Muse's writeup on abilities looks very good so far though!

[Sasha]

Think that we should have the butterfly required to be in flight, or allow them to use a spore ability while on the ground - just flapping their wings Mothra-style?

I definitely like the idea of butterflies as the fragile but dangerous caster-types.

[Quest Lord]

Think that we should have the butterfly required to be in flight, or allow them to use a spore ability while on the ground - just flapping their wings Mothra-style?

I definitely like the idea of butterflies as the fragile but dangerous caster-types.

Have it centre over the butterfly/moth, but one height level down, if there is a lower height level. Then with certain skills, they can move it some, allowing them to safely use it on the ground and not get caught up in it. Question is, are they immune to the effects of their own spores? Or should spore resistance be a skill, with level one making them immune to their own spores? Or something else?

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