Re: Combat Thread

[Naryzhud]

Yeah that's fine, i just meant in general. It should be a rare thing.

[Sasha]

Personal tools should be both rare and not-too-useful...but if we're really making the bugs human-ish-level intelligent, I think that allowing construction of large items might be a good idea. Say, bridges or shelters (towns?) or even primitive transportation devices - say, a muscle-powered silk-and-wood elevator up to a reinforced bee-hive town.

Insects generally don't have the required dexterity that thumbs provide, but larger-scale works are produced by some species even now, and require much less explanation of how they could be dextrous enough to produce them.

[Bogleech]

Insects can already climb and fly so easily though, all they need is a cable or stick to walk across. "Buildings" would like just be variations on beehives, wasp pottery and caterpillar cocoons. They might be in demand to build larger versions for other insects.

I could see a use for large rafts/boats or even "airships" carried by multiple flying insects to transport goods and non-fliers. They wouldn't look anything like our equivalents, though. They should look natural, like large pupal cases.

[Naryzhud]

Transports would be pretty cool, but i think we're getting off-topic here guys... this discussion belongs in fluff more than combat mechanics...

[Sasha]

Transports would be pretty cool, but i think we're getting off-topic here guys... this discussion belongs in fluff more than combat mechanics...

Indeed it does.

So: ranged attacks?

[Naryzhud]

I'm thinking fex as primary attribute as it features both dexterity and the flexibility to aim the thorax at someone. Possibly ag to defend against it?

[Quest Lord]

Makes sense. What ranged attacks will there be? Bombardier Beetle's formic acid, anything else? Even ants seem to use their formic acid up close, no real range on that.

[BrokenMuse]

Makes sense. What ranged attacks will there be? Bombardier Beetle's formic acid, anything else? Even ants seem to use their formic acid up close, no real range on that.

Spitting Spiders and tarantulas' urticating hairs are a couple other attacks.

There's also the butterfly/moth scales/spores/whatever. Some of their offensive effects might count as area effect ranged attacks.

[Bogleech]

I've seen footage of some tropical ants who can squirt a thin stream of acid pretty damn far, getting vertebrates in the eyes from the ground.

[Bees]

Pheromone blasts that confuse nearby targets could be ranged attacks too, as well as the antlion larva's sand-throwing, glue spit of termites, formic acid of false bombardiers in addition to ants (bombardiers themselves spray quinones), eucalyptus-flavored spit of spitfire sawfly grubs and cyanide spray of certain millipedes. Larger moths and such could easily pick up pebbles and drop them from above.

[Sasha]

Pheromone blasts that confuse nearby targets could be ranged attacks too, as well as the antlion larva's sand-throwing, glue spit of termites, formic acid of false bombardiers in addition to ants (bombardiers themselves spray quinones), eucalyptus-flavored spit of spitfire sawfly grubs and cyanide spray of certain millipedes. Larger moths and such could easily pick up pebbles and drop them from above.

That opens an interesting question that might be better put in one of the other threads -

What is the average airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow(tail)?

[Quest Lord]

What is the average airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow(tail)?

Canadian Tiger Swallowtail or Old World Swallowtail?

[Sasha]

What is the average airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow(tail)?

Canadian Tiger Swallowtail or Old World Swallowtail?

Wha...uh...I don't know! *sproingyaaaaaaaah*

[Quest Lord]

Summing this thread up, getting people back on topic and discussan’.

Stats:
Siz: How big you are. You can only grapple similarly sized opponents, a tarantula wrestling with carpenter ants is silly.
Fex: Flexibility and Dexterity. To hit and dodge stat in a grapple situation,
Str: Physical damage stat.
Vit: HP
Exo: Exoskeleton armour/chitin, physical damage reduction.
Agi: Ability to hit and dodge in more open combat.
Soc: Teamwork stat. Adds bonuses to assisting.
Int: Mental stat. Used for some abilities.

So four flavours of actions, free (no slot, common sense use though), move (1 slot), action (1 slot) and complex action (2 slots) out of 2 slots a turn.

For this one, size categories = size bonus. So 10 size is one size category.

Attacks:
Exo: You may subtract your exo bonus from all physical damage taken, taking damage down to a minimum of 0. If a sting or bite does no physical damage, any poisons/toxins in the bite don't take effect, unless otherwise noted. Action:

Grapple (mandibles): You aggressively rush in and attempt to initiate a grapple with your mandibles. This can only be performed on creatures within 2 size categories of you. Opposed Agi roll. If you tie or have one degree of sucess, you are partially thwarted, and you enter a grapple situation, with no advantage as you lock mandibles. If the opponent does not have the grapple mandibles ability, or you attain 2 or more degrees of success, you enter a grapple with advantage, putting your opponent in a grapple with disadvantage. This represents you locking your mandibles around a leg or body part. If you're more then 2 size categories bigger, you always have grapple advantage.

Crush (mandibles): If you are in a grapple with advantage, you may crush with your strength, and hurt your opponent this way. Deal Str bonus physical damage to your opponent.

Formic spray (tail): A complex action that requires grapple advantage. Roll an opposed Fex check to see if you hit successfully. Damage is equal to your formic acid damage - Exo.

Formic Acid: Allows you to do damage with formic acid. Starts at d10 – 2 damage at level one. Each successive level is +1 damage.

Ideas:
Fex was for when you're in grapples to use secondary attacks. (ie attacking with not the part your grappling with). And for hitting with ranged attacks (vs. ag to dodge still)

Ag vs Ag to hit, Str physical damage (-exo as per normal)

For every degree of success you ignore one point of exo. So it'd be harder for more armoured creatures, but still possible if you're fast/lucky enough. 1vs10 ignores all exo, always. That's a 1% chance, so not good odds, but that's for anyone, always. As the stats run from 1-100, the max exo bonus is 100, and most species won't get that, or anything close to it.

Bite (1) would allow you to use a bite attack, bite (2) would just give you a +1 to hit +1 to damage modifier perhaps, etc. etc.

[Alpharius]

I think the combat system thus far is good, but a crucial part of the game that we've forgotten about... XP and levels. How much do people get, how much does it take to level, and what's the max level?

[Quest Lord]

I think we should get combat and abilities a little more complete, before we decide on a level cap. Mainly so we know how many abilities we're dealing with. But I guess we could use a tentative system, to use until we're at that level of completion. I propose that we have a system with a lot of levels, but relatively little XP per level. That way at each level they can moult, and their sting might be a little better, etc. so they don't have huge power jumps. Maybe a new ability once every 5 levels, so they can get new abilities, but not as frequently.

Alternatively, do away with levels, and have the abilities ties to an XP cost. At the end of a session you can buy abilities with such and such xp?

Opinions?

[Naryzhud]

Ok a few points to bring out here....

1- the grapple only creatures of similar size thing... what counts as similar, one up one down? And how do we then deal with things such as large creatures picking smaller ones up in their mandibles (or even beaks)

2- I like the combat system we have so far, it seems to make sense for the most part.

3- XP - not sure whether i like the idea of levels so perhaps the point buy system is the way to go? But then it might also be a good idea to have stat caps for the different species? So a moth could only have a max of 50 exo for instance (just a random example). Or perhaps tie certain abilities to having only a certain amount of a particular stat so after 60 exo you can't fly for instance. In retrospect this is getting complicated perhaps it would be better to go with Questlords lots of little levels thing?

4- much love for the python...

[Quest Lord]

1) What if we said that any bug 2 size categories up always has grapple advantage, and you can't grapple anyone more then 3 sizes above yourself (but they can grapple you)? Maybe we need a new term for one way grapples where the smaller bug is helpless in the larger bug's mandibles.

2) Awesome

3) How does everyone feel about making a level = a moult?

4) Indeed.

[Naryzhud]

Levelling = moulting is an interesting idea, that i like in principle. Having to find somewhere to moult safely could also lead to some interesting things, but it would then affect the little and often mechanic. Perhaps have little and often possible, but at the players choice they can just do one massive moult every five levels if they want instead?

[Grawflemaul]

See, normally I dislike levelling. But in a game about bugs, where the levelling is almost literally growing a new you, it kinda makes sense.

Being vulnerable while you're moulting brings another interesting dimension to it. You could moult now, but it's kinda dangerous here. But then you're more capable of dealing with that danger if you moult a better stinger...

[ChickenSpider]

Are we going to have any of those great critical tables like the ones they have in Dark Heresy?

[Quest Lord]

Are we going to have any of those great critical tables like the ones they have in Dark Heresy?

I'm not sure, this is a good question. I like the idea of it, with different damage types being: Bashing, stinging, toxic/poison, crushing, etc?

[ChickenSpider]

That would be the basic idea, yes.

[Naryzhud]

I've just thought of another size issue.

Say ants are swarming all over a tarantula all biting and spraying formic acid at it, how would that work? With the rules we have so far, the ants wouldn't be able to do that as they would not be able to grapple due to size issues and grapple disadvantage even if they could grapple it.

I think we need a new term for that sort of grapple, perhaps "Latch On"? So if a creature is more than two sizes larger, you can only preform a Latch On grapple, wherein you cannot crush (crit damage) or move the other creature but can still do things like bite (basic damage) and use abilities that need to be grappled such as formic acid spray?

[Sasha]

I've just thought of another size issue.

Say ants are swarming all over a tarantula all biting and spraying formic acid at it, how would that work? With the rules we have so far, the ants wouldn't be able to do that as they would not be able to grapple due to size issues and grapple disadvantage even if they could grapple it.

I think we need a new term for that sort of grapple, perhaps "Latch On"? So if a creature is more than two sizes larger, you can only preform a Latch On grapple, wherein you cannot crush (crit damage) or move the other creature but can still do things like bite (basic damage) and use abilities that need to be grappled such as formic acid spray?

That sounds like a good idea; I think using Latch On should generally allow you to do things like automatically deal bite damage, and provide a bonus to prevent attempts to brush you off.

There are definitely some abilities that should require Latch On in order to be performed - say, blood-drain or formic acid spray, since that's not really a ranged attack, just spitting the acid into a wound.

What I'm thinking of right now is something along the lines of:

"Any opponent more than two sizes larger cannot be grappled normally, but you can attempt Latch On. While using this ability, you cannot be grappled unless the opponent breaks your Latch. Unless using an ability that says otherwise, you retain your movement abilities, but can perform basic melee attacks with (either automatic hit or major bonus).

If you use Latch-On Bite, you must first be latched on; you can make a bite attack as a free attack. If you succeed, your jaws are securely fastened on your opponent, and you gain +X to resist attempts to knock you off. However, you cannot move or dodge. If you have Formic Spray, you may use the ability in place of an attack each turn while latched on."

[Sponsored content]