Combat Thread

[Quest Lord]

Now we have our stats together, how should combat work?

Stats:
Siz: How big you are. You can only grapple similarly sized opponents, a tarantula wrestling with carpenter ants is silly.
Fex: Flexibility and Dexterity. To hit and dodge stat in a grapple situation,
Str: Physical damage stat.
Vit: HP
Exo: Exoskeleton armour/chitin, physical damage reduction.
Agi: Ability to hit and dodge in more open combat.
Soc: Teamwork stat. Adds bonuses to assisting.
Int: Mental stat. Used for some abilities.


Combat should be able to simulate:
Open combat, with opponents circling and dodging
Grabs where one bug has grabbed another with it's mandibles/pincers, and is attempting to crush it/hold it to use secondary attacks (fex), as the other bug tries to escape or bring its own secondary attacks into play.
Grappling combat, where two opponents have locked mandibles/pincers, and are either attempting to use Fex to use secondary attacks, or Str to move the other/gain the advantage
One bug grabbing another bug, so that an ally bug can attack freely.
Usage of various 'attacks' like bites, stings, formic acid sprays, webbing attacks, MANTIS PUNCH, etc.

[Naryzhud]

Shall we start at the beginning then? How does initiative work? Derive from agility? Ag + fex? Should there be a modifier for social creatures alerting their comrades? Does Int come into it allowing characters to notice ambushes?

[Quest Lord]

I'm not sure Fex should effect initiative. Agi would be the most useful, and then maybe int (reflexes)? Agi + Int for initive?

I think social creatures alerting their comrades should have a modifier. Maybe dependant on a certain ability? Highest social can add half Social Bonus to the Initiative of all bugs in the party?

I think Int will be a catch all for all mental stats. Perception, Reflexes, etc. So in that case, yes, it should be the stat to help guard against ambushes. Maybe have ambushes as a double your initiative on the turn you ambush type thing - so if your initive is high enough you can avoid it, otherwise you get hit.

[Naryzhud]

Maybe have ambushes as a double your initiative on the turn you ambush type thing - so if your initive is high enough you can avoid it, otherwise you get hit.

I like this. Also when we say Ag + Int to initiative how are we working it. I'm thinking use the tens column for these sorts of purposes as a modifier, so an Ag 43 Int 54 character would roll a d% and add AG 4 + Int 5 for a bonus of 9 but then that's a really small modifier. Using a d10 on the other hand would make the modifier too high though. Thoughts?

[Quest Lord]

I guess we should be more clear.

However a stat bonus is just the 10s column of said stat, like DH.

What if Agi + int = inititive and combat order is simply highest initive bonus strikes first, etc. Your agi bonus is how many actions you can undertake per round. Moving, attacks, etc. are all actions. You can defer your actions an initiative step if you like so you can react, etc.?

[Naryzhud]

Hmm. Not entirely keen on the static initiative, i like there being a random element to it.

[Alpharius]

Why not just have it be "Roll a d10, add your Agility bonus, and whoever rolls the highest wins"?

[Quest Lord]

Why not just have it be "Roll a d10, add your Agility bonus, and whoever rolls the highest wins"?

Simple and it works. Even D10 + Agi + Int could work. 9 + d10 vs say a 6+d10 would give you an advantage, but not a crazy one. And it would mean that agi isn't the only stat that allows people to go first, and a low agi high int bug might be able to take initiative by way of faster reflexes or seeing the problem before anyone else does.

[Naryzhud]

Why not just have it be "Roll a d10, add your Agility bonus, and whoever rolls the highest wins"?

Simple and it works. Even D10 + Agi + Int could work. 9 + d10 vs say a 6+d10 would give you an advantage, but not a crazy one. And it would mean that agi isn't the only stat that allows people to go first, and a low agi high int bug might be able to take initiative by way of faster reflexes or seeing the problem before anyone else does.

Works for me. Are we gonna start compiling stuff we're happy with at alpha level?

[Quest Lord]

Why not just have it be "Roll a d10, add your Agility bonus, and whoever rolls the highest wins"?

Simple and it works. Even D10 + Agi + Int could work. 9 + d10 vs say a 6+d10 would give you an advantage, but not a crazy one. And it would mean that agi isn't the only stat that allows people to go first, and a low agi high int bug might be able to take initiative by way of faster reflexes or seeing the problem before anyone else does.

Works for me. Are we gonna start compiling stuff we're happy with at alpha level?

I think Apharius has a thread for just that. I know I can edit things into that, so that works.

[Quest Lord]

So, that's initiative worked out. Your turn rolls around, what do you do?

Do we do it like DH, actions, half actions, free actions, re-actions and extended actions?

[Naryzhud]

I think we should take care not to be too similar to the DH rules in order to avoid any sort of copyright infringement problems. Since we don't have weapons to draw, items to manipulate and such, perhaps a simplistic view would be best with moves, actions and complex actions. You can do two things a turn with complex actions counting as both of these. So a move and an action, 2 moves, 2 actions, or a complex action. Thoughts?

[BrokenMuse]

I think we should take care not to be too similar to the DH rules in order to avoid any sort of copyright infringement problems. Since we don't have weapons to draw, items to manipulate and such, perhaps a simplistic view would be best with moves, actions and complex actions. You can do two things a turn with complex actions counting as both of these. So a move and an action, 2 moves, 2 actions, or a complex action. Thoughts?

Don't forget free/simple/quick actions. Those little things that don't take any time.

[Quest Lord]

I think we should take care not to be too similar to the DH rules in order to avoid any sort of copyright infringement problems. Since we don't have weapons to draw, items to manipulate and such, perhaps a simplistic view would be best with moves, actions and complex actions. You can do two things a turn with complex actions counting as both of these. So a move and an action, 2 moves, 2 actions, or a complex action. Thoughts?

This looks good. A move could be a flying move or a walking move (or whatever other kind of move you have), whereas an action could be to bite, grapple (pincers), or something else. What would constitute as being a complex action?

[BrokenMuse]

Complex actions could be things like spinning a web, healing another or sending a pheromone cloud out. They aren't attacks and the bug isn't moving a significant distance.

[Bees]

Complex actions could be things like spinning a web, healing another or sending a pheromone cloud out. They aren't attacks and the bug isn't moving a significant distance.

Perhaps some powerful attacks can also be complex actions, like a bombardier beetle or ant squirting formic acid/burning quinones (needs to aim the gland, so more time taken? )

[Quest Lord]

Complex actions could be things like spinning a web, healing another or sending a pheromone cloud out. They aren't attacks and the bug isn't moving a significant distance.

Perhaps some powerful attacks can also be complex actions, like a bombardier beetle or ant squirting formic acid/burning quinones (needs to aim the gland, so more time taken? )

Potentially, yes. Even ones that might not take so long, but because of how you do it, you won't be able to do anything else when you do it. Aiming formic acid would be tricky on the move for example.

[Naryzhud]

works for me. So four flavours of actions, free (no slot, common sense use though), move (1 slot), action (1 slot) and complex action (2 slots) out of 2 slots a turn.

[Quest Lord]

works for me. So four flavours of actions, free (no slot, common sense use though), move (1 slot), action (1 slot) and complex action (2 slots) out of 2 slots a turn.

Yep, looks good.

So that's the basics of combat mechanics down. Now the tricky but fun bit: Working out what the actions actually are.

For this one, size categories = size bonus. So 10 size is one size category.

Exo: You may subtract your exo bonus from all physical damage taken, taking damage down to a minimum of 0. If a sting or bite does no physical damage, any poisons/toxins in the bite don't take effect, unless otherwise noted.

Action:
Grapple (mandibles): You aggressively rush in and attempt to initiate a grapple with your mandibles. This can only be performed on creatures within 2 size categories of you. Opposed Agi roll. If you tie or have one degree of sucess, you are partially thwarted, and you enter a grapple situation, with no advantage as you lock mandibles. If the opponent does not have the grapple mandibles ability, or you attain 2 or more degrees of success, you enter a grapple with advantage, putting your opponent in a grapple with disadvantage. This represents you locking your mandibles around a leg or body part.

Crush (mandibles): If you are in a grapple with advantage, you may crush with your strength, and hurt your opponent this way. Deal Str bonus physical damage to your opponent.

Like this?

[Naryzhud]

Good so far, how does the opposed Ag test work though, roll + bonus? Seems simplest. And what's with the degrees of success? Difference in scores?

Also worth mentioning that larger creatures can still pick up and crush smaller ones in their mandibles, should that be a separate type of grapple or just a plain bite attack?

[BrokenMuse]

Probably as a grapple, maybe in two turns (Turn 1: Grab the critter. Turn 2: Crush). Gives smaller PCs a chance to escape. There could be Traits that improve a bug's chance at crushing, maybe a high tier one that reduces crushing to one turn.

[Quest Lord]

Good so far, how does the opposed Ag test work though, roll + bonus? Seems simplest. And what's with the degrees of success? Difference in scores?

Also worth mentioning that larger creatures can still pick up and crush smaller ones in their mandibles, should that be a separate type of grapple or just a plain bite attack?

Yes and yes.

A separate type of grapple I guess. I was thinking more about smaller bugs being unable to grapple bigger bugs. Hell, it could be this kind of grapple, except that if you're more then 2 size categories bigger, you always have grapple advantage.

[Naryzhud]

Hell, it could be this kind of grapple, except that if you're more then 2 size categories bigger, you always have grapple advantage.

This. Grapple advantage could also be necessary for certain short ranged but powerful attacks, like formic spray... Also wasn't it meant to be Fex that affected grapples?

How would simple attacks work then? Ag + Str against Ag + Exo?

[Quest Lord]

Hell, it could be this kind of grapple, except that if you're more then 2 size categories bigger, you always have grapple advantage.

This. Grapple advantage could also be necessary for certain short ranged but powerful attacks, like formic spray... Also wasn't it meant to be Fex that affected grapples?

How would simple attacks work then? Ag + Str against Ag + Exo?

Fex was for when you're in grapples to use secondary attacks. (ie attacking with not the part your grappling with).

Ag vs Ag to hit, Str physical damage (-exo as per normal)

[Naryzhud]

Ah right.

How about a critical chance on the ag rolls? As a lot of the heavier armoured creatures would be impervious to anything the smaller weaker creatures could throw at them, perhaps have a hit with more than 5 degrees of success ignore exo? Just so that you could have the occasional story of how the tiny worker drone took down the rhino beetle in a one in a million attack etc...

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