Re: System: D?

[jesusofthemonkeys]

Yeah, the morphs seem like they'd fit really well here. I'll vote for eclipse phase. I haven't read up too much on the background and stuff. Would we scrap that or would it be useful?

[Quest Lord]

Well if we have a d100 system, then we can have Str 60 bugs and str 10 ones, so possibly have each order with base stats.
A spider base might be
Vit: 40 Str: 40 Flex/Dex: 50 Agi: 50 Int: 45 Social: 20
Wheras the base for an ant might be
Vit: 20 Str: 30 Flex/Dex: 40 Agi: 60 Int: 50 Social: 50

You pick an order, roll for stats on top of that (a d10 for each stat?) and then pick a species template, which will further modify your stats. From there you can pick which abilities/traits to get with x starting exp. and that's a character.

Does that look like a good rough idea for chargen?

[Alpharius]

Well if we have a d100 system, then we can have Str 60 bugs and str 10 ones, so possibly have each order with base stats.
A spider base might be
Vit: 40 Str: 40 Flex/Dex: 50 Agi: 50 Int: 45 Social: 20
Wheras the base for an ant might be
Vit: 20 Str: 30 Flex/Dex: 40 Agi: 60 Int: 50 Social: 50

You pick an order, roll for stats on top of that (a d10 for each stat?) and then pick a species template, which will further modify your stats. From there you can pick which abilities/traits to get with x starting exp. and that's a character.

Does that look like a good rough idea for chargen?

We really need to officialize the stats we want to use.

[Quest Lord]

We do. Well, what stats do we need? And what should be the limit for a bug to have, and what should be only available to non-bug NPCs like rodents, etc?

Also, playing around with forum stuff. Are you a mod now Alpharius?

[BrokenMuse]

Yeah, the morphs seem like they'd fit really well here. I'll vote for eclipse phase. I haven't read up too much on the background and stuff. Would we scrap that or would it be useful?

Unless people want to play as bugs in space escaping the killer AIs they created...

I brought up EP as an example of dealing with DH not having nonhuman character options. Morphs are really like templates, which was one of the design ideas being kicked around.

Well if we have a d100 system, then we can have Str 60 bugs and str 10 ones, so possibly have each order with base stats.
A spider base might be
Vit: 40 Str: 40 Flex/Dex: 50 Agi: 50 Int: 45 Social: 20
Wheras the base for an ant might be
Vit: 20 Str: 30 Flex/Dex: 40 Agi: 60 Int: 50 Social: 50

You pick an order, roll for stats on top of that (a d10 for each stat?) and then pick a species template, which will further modify your stats. From there you can pick which abilities/traits to get with x starting exp. and that's a character.

Does that look like a good rough idea for chargen?

Its a start. Or what about it being a modifier, i.e. Ant: Vit +X, Str +Y, Flex/Dex +0, Agi +0, Int +?, Soc +Z

[Quest Lord]

I thought about it being a modifyer, but really, certain species are just going to be better at some things. Unless we're talking +50 modifiers, I think a base stat at the order level might be a good idea.

[Alpharius]

What, in my mind, makes the most sense in terms of chargen, is perhaps a basic statline for any given species, and then a point-buy system for people to make use of to customize their character in whatever direction they want to take it.

[Quest Lord]

@alpharius: I think you're right. Well if we have <Stat> Advantage as a trait that can be bought, it'll a) be a good way to cap certain species, and b) let them modify their species how they like. Plus it keeps things simple at chargen. Order + Species + Point buy traits and abilities. Done.

[Naryzhud]

So is it pretty much accepted that we're using the D% idea? I like the idea of having a base stat line for each order and then a smaller modifier from character creation. As for statlines, i like Quest Lord's lineup of Vitality, str, flex/dex (perhaps just simplify to dex?), agi, int and social.

[Quest Lord]

Ok, stats we need.

Size: It's gonna be a big deal (pun intended). If I'm huge I'm easier to hit, stronger, etc. You can only reasonably grapple with things close to your size - so size might be a disadvantage for some creatures.

Flex/Dex: Used the internet, found some bugfight videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tg0HI2TssIE&NR=1
http://www.japanesebugfights.com/30.htm

Basically flexibilty seemed like a big deal. Being able to reach the enemy with your sting, formic acid spitting tail, whatever, whilst grappling with them so they can't do the same to you. Avoiding said sting while you're being held in place.

Strength: Holding a creature in a grapple, how hard you can crush them with your claws, how much damage your bite does. Not always equivalent to size, as the ant can show.

Vitality: Some bugs are tougher then others. They can last longer from poisons, they can take more physical damage before they expire, etc. May be related to size, but not always. Roaches would have this in spades.

Chitin/Exoskeleton/Armour: It's all natural, so it might be better as a stat. Some species would have very little (larvae of most species would have 0, butterflies and moths might have 5) but others would have lots. Basically damage reduction/negatoin of physical damage. Large species would likely depend on this to avoid being swarmed by heaps of little bugs too small for them to deal with.
http://www.japanesebugfights.com/23.htm chitin tank vs flex/dex and agi poison attacker
Some physical damage would have to be done in order for many poisons to work (stings/bites would need to peirce chitin to work for example), so it would help against stinging/venomous creatures too, to a degree.

Agility: Some species are faster. This is movement speed, flat out. Larger species will get more as a rule, but not always. Also, ability to dodge, etc.

Social: Ability to work as a team. Social insects have it in spades, lone predictors would have nearly none. Woodlice, and other non-social species that aren't predators might get some. Gives bonuses to assisting, etc. Makes groups of ants a scary prospect, and army ants terrifying en masse.

Int: Because some bugs are smarter then others. Will be a general mental stat, some wasps that use pebbles for tools would have high int, allowing them to use simple tools (pebbles, sticks, etc. NO CRAFTAN), etc. Might be used by spiders to make traps and webs better, etc. Quite possibly going to be the dump stat for a lot of straight out fighter bugs.

C&C? Comments?

[Naryzhud]

Not sure about the chitin/exoskeleton/armour being a stat, but maybe... just feels a bit odd... Possibly have it as a trait instead? So a generic beetle could have Chitin (10) and then a goliath beetle could get improved Chitin (15) or whatever we decide the numbers to be...

Also agility and speed should probably be separated, as a large, lumbering insect might be able to travel faster than a smaller much more agile one if the size difference was big enough, and in extreme cases it will be. That or possibly have speed measured in body lengths or something... so agility (60) would give you a speed of (6*size modifier) or something?

[Quest Lord]

Not sure about the chitin/exoskeleton/armour being a stat, but maybe... just feels a bit odd... Possibly have it as a trait instead? So a generic beetle could have Chitin (10) and then a goliath beetle could get improved Chitin (15) or whatever we decide the numbers to be...

I decided since it would be almost omnipresent it would work better as a stat. Almost all insects would have it at some level, even a moth has a (relatively) hard exoskeleton. Also, chitin would have to be bypassable, on a to hit roll of higher then the chitin level, it chitin would be reduced? A high enough success would bypass chitin entirely (go for the eyes!) so nothing could be invulnerable.

Also agility and speed should probably be separated, as a large, lumbering insect might be able to travel faster than a smaller much more agile one if the size difference was big enough, and in extreme cases it will be. That or possibly have speed measured in body lengths or something... so agility (60) would give you a speed of (6*size modifier) or something?

I think this second thing might be the best way to do it. Agi modifyer * size modifyer = speed. Some bugs (catapillars) might have additional slowing factors, since they'd be large, but have no legs to speak of - being outpaced by an ant, despite having a body 40 times the length of one for example, but overall that seems to be a good system.

[Naryzhud]

Fair enough. Also on the issue of the whole armour vs agility thing, since we're (presumably) using the d100 system perhaps have it as a sliding scale sort of thing, ie if you have 60 armour then your agility is capped at 40 and viceversa?

[Quest Lord]

Fair enough. Also on the issue of the whole armour vs agility thing, since we're (presumably) using the d100 system perhaps have it as a sliding scale sort of thing, ie if you have 60 armour then your agility is capped at 40 and viceversa?

That works. Is there any well armoured, agile insects anyone else can think of?

Alternatively, each level of Exo advantage could include an agi penalty, and vice versa. So you could be a fast, armoured bug, but you'd have to stack all your points into Exo advantages and agi advantages, to overcome the penalties. For example:

Exo advantage:
This trait adds 5 to your exo stat. However it removes 2 from both your agi and fex stats.

Fex Advantage:
This trait adds 5 to your fex stat. However it removes 2 from your Exo stat.

Agi advantage:
This trait adds 5 to your agi stat. However it removes 2 from your Exo stat.

Similarly, some things might have several boosts/losses eg:

Huge:
This trait adds 10 to your size stat, and 5 to your str and Vit stats.

Tiny:
This trait takes 10 from your size stat, and takes 5 from your str and vit stats.

[Naryzhud]

Either works, but I suppose it depends on how many points players are going to have to throw about like that as to how viable the second option is. If it gets to a point where the player can easily afford the xp to make monster bug, then it's not really viable, but if its always going to be a choice between those extra stats or some extra bonus to their grapple and sting attack then it works.

[Quest Lord]

I like the idea of the players picking carefully what advantages they want their bug to moult into next. Using both might also be an option, so that they can't make UBER BUG WITH 100 ALL STATS no matter how much exp they get.

Also, lets not forget that each of these traits will only be able to be taken so many times, and will likely get more expensive as they get higher.

[Naryzhud]

Oh yeah, definitely have them scale in price... Perhaps as a total of ability points? So up to 250 total ability points (for example) would be one price, then 500, then 750 and so on...

[Quest Lord]

As for it scaling up, it would depend on species.

Example: Strength advantage on say a bull ant.

Ants might have strength advantage (5) as a trait option.

Bull ants might have strength advantage (4) as a favoured trait, and strength advantage (6) as a new trait

Another ant species might have strength advantage (7) as a trait

So, the bull ant could take up to (4) at half the normal price, up to (6) at the normal price and then up to (7) at double price using rules allowing you to take other species advantages within your own order at double price.

This is using potential rules mentioned around the forum, nothing is in stone yet, but it is a simple breakup of how some species will become stronger, faster, and as you scale up beyond the norm for your species, you will slow down. Is minmaxing yourself to have MAX STR that important, or would some agi or even an ability come in handy?

[Naryzhud]

So wait, would that mean ants were capped at str 7? Or could they buy higher str some other way? Or does that only apply to starter characters?

[Quest Lord]

That would mean that ants would be capped at 7x Str Advantage. If str advantage is a +5 to str, that means they're capped at starting str for their species of ant, +35 str. If their species has a base Str of 40 (bull ants might for example) they'd be capped at 75 Str. . .

[Naryzhud]

Right, but where do we get this strength advantage from? Sorry if i'm being slow...

[Quest Lord]

Right, but where do we get this strength advantage from? Sorry if i'm being slow...

Is cool.

You could either buy levels in it at character generation, or when you level up/moult, you could use your exp. to buy levels in strength advantage.

[Naryzhud]

Ohhhhhhh. So it's basically another trait? We'd have to start all orders off with a base amount of advantages though or theyd be spending most of their points making sure they weren't capped at 0 to any abilities... Or do they only apply to increases on top of the racial bases?

Hang on though, where'd that seven come from then if the 5 is the str advantage?

Are we overcomplicating things here when we could just set a max for each species?

[Quest Lord]

Ohhhhhhh. So it's basically another trait? We'd have to start all orders off with a base amount of advantages though or theyd be spending most of their points making sure they weren't capped at 0 to any abilities... Or do they only apply to increases on top of the racial bases?

Hang on though, where'd that seven come from then if the 5 is the str advantage?

Are we overcomplicating things here when we could just set a max for each species?

The 7 would be the max amount of times you can take Str. Advantage.

Each order would have a list of traits they can take as basic, and each species would just be noting where it differs from that. Any traits mentioned in the order level, are available to all species in the order, unless specified otherwise.

[Naryzhud]

Ok so strength advantage (a) would be a multiplier of (a) x 5 on top of the base str. Always 5.

And the same creature might get fex advantage of 4 which again would be times 5 and added to the base fex of the creature.

So when you buy these advantage traits do you automatically get the stat increases or are you just buying the potential for them?

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