System: D?

[Alpharius]

An agreement about a system needs to be arrived at before we can do a whole lot. D10, d20, d%, or something else?

[BrokenMuse]

I'm leaning towards d10 myself. The less dice rolled or modifiers juggled the better.
Just to clarify though, I'm running under the assumption that it'd be something like:
d10=nWoD
d20=d20 system
d6= Shadowrun
d%= something like Eclipse Phase (roll under to succeed).

I favor dice pool-based mechanics; roll Attribute+Trait/Skill/Quality, +/- modifiers, count the number of successes. There's the nWoD system where 1 "hit"=success, extras mean better success and SR where more "hits"=better. They seem quicker and simpler.

[Quest Lord]

Quick and simple sounds good, particularly if we're going to have a lot of flexibility within the characters. Which we'll have to, given that this is a system where tarantulas and lice are both going to want to be playable.

[BrokenMuse]

Though as an anon pointed out in the thread that started this all:

I think one thing we need to ignore is any need for Balancing.

A Spider is always gonna be superior to an ant. We don't need to make it so that Ants are smarter than spiders or something. The Ants' strength is is numbers and organisation.

Which I agree with, to a point. There's going to be a lot of variation between species both in size and capabilities. True balance is going to be impossible or too much trouble.

[Grawflemaul]

BRP - ARACHNOPOCALYPSE STYLE

First off: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DELTG9Q9

Download that.

System's dead simple, for those who don't know it. Effectively, most stuff is reduced to rolling a d100 and aiming to get under a skill or stat multiple.

Obviously, this needs some pretty hefty modification, as would any system primarily based on people.

Firstly, I'd change stats to:

Strength: Brawn and raw muscle power
Constituion: Health, vigour and vitaility
Size: Pretty obvious
Intelligence: Problem-solving and reasoning
Power: Willpower, mental fortitude
Dexterity: Balance and deftness
Appearance: Generally only applies to members of your own species, basically, appearance and good looks
Movement: Speed and agility

Players can either roll 3d6 for each, and then look against a table saying what sort of stats a particular insect type should have, or look at the table and get set values for each stat. For example, and bear in mind, I'm not a Spider-Expert, so my stats could be entirely wrong, but hey:

TARANTULA
STR:13 CON: 12 SIZ: 14 INT: 12 POW: 8 DEX: 16 APP: 8 MOV:10

Once you've got these base stats, you have 10 points to spend to customise your Tarantula. Figures will change, but that's how I can see it working.

These stats are used to work out a variety of bonuses, best explained in the book. Mostly, they still make sense, except for Movement.

Speaking of which, skills!
Basic Skills: Hide, Move Silently, Spot Hidden, Listen, Insight, Foraging, Grappling, Intimidation, Negotiation
Weapon Skills: Bite, Claw, Needle, Launching
Unique Skills: Web-weaving, Trap-making. Nest-making, etc.

Basic Skills all have a yet to be decided base rate, possibly based on their stats. Characters with abilities will get unique skills to match them. Characters get a weapon skill for each attack type they have. Characters then have 100 points to spend to improve all their skills above base rates.

Special abilities are all taken from the mutations section of BRP. Characters are assigned appropriate "mutations" as befits their species

Suitable Mutations include: Adaptability, Camouflage, Group Intelligence, Hardy, Keen Sense, Luminescence, Natural Armour, Pheremone, Regeneration, Sensitivity, Venom, Wings.

Attack damage would be based on a set damage for each attack type, say: d6 for a bite attack, modified by Damage Bonus, which is affected by Strength and Size.

Character advancement works along the following lines. Whenever you roll a success for a skill in such a way as you've learned from the experience. You tick it. Whenever you have downtime, you roll against that skill, this time aiming to roll over it. If you roll over your skill, you get +1d10% in it.

[Quest Lord]

Strength: Brawn and raw muscle power
Constituion: Health, vigour and vitaility
Size: Pretty obvious
Intelligence: Problem-solving and reasoning Not as much needed IMHO. Possibly good for resisting mind controll bugs or stuff
Power: Willpower, mental fortitude Not as much needed IMHO. Possibly good for resisting mind controll bugs or stuff
Dexterity: Balance and deftness Flexibilty and stuff also goes here
Appearance: Generally only applies to members of your own species, basically, appearance and good looks Not needed so much. Ants don't care what you look like. Maybe replace with. . .
Social: Teamwork, communicating via pheremones, etc. Ants and bees would have this, it;d give bonuses for assisting in combat, etc.
Movement: Speed and agility

As for the skills part, I think unique skills might be better renamed 'abilities' since there will be a lot of overlap, and just fits better with the bugs thing.

Also, on top of skills, traits that are always in effect might be something to have. Larger mandibles giving a +1 to damage from bite attacks for example, which could be taken several times so you have larger mandibles (3) giving a +3 bonus for a bull ant character for example.

"Which I agree with, to a point. There's going to be a lot of variation between species both in size and capabilities. True balance is going to be impossible or too much trouble."

Maybe just make certain species a certain assumed level. So a an adult trapdoor spider is a lvl 9 creature basic. To play a trapdoor spider in a lower leveled game, start with a juvinile spider to be more on a level with ants, etc. If we make level 5 for example the base level, then we can have level one creatures as low threat enemies from the start, and it would allow the weaker species to take for example 3 levels of upgrades to 'catch up'.

[Sasha]

Strength: Brawn and raw muscle power
Constituion: Health, vigour and vitaility
Size: Pretty obvious
Intelligence: Problem-solving and reasoning Not as much needed IMHO. Possibly good for resisting mind controll bugs or stuff
Power: Willpower, mental fortitude Not as much needed IMHO. Possibly good for resisting mind controll bugs or stuff
Dexterity: Balance and deftness Flexibilty and stuff also goes here
Appearance: Generally only applies to members of your own species, basically, appearance and good looks Not needed so much. Ants don't care what you look like. Maybe replace with. . .
Social: Teamwork, communicating via pheremones, etc. Ants and bees would have this, it;d give bonuses for assisting in combat, etc.
Movement: Speed and agility

As for the skills part, I think unique skills might be better renamed 'abilities' since there will be a lot of overlap, and just fits better with the bugs thing.

Also, on top of skills, traits that are always in effect might be something to have. Larger mandibles giving a +1 to damage from bite attacks for example, which could be taken several times so you have larger mandibles (3) giving a +3 bonus for a bull ant character for example.

"Which I agree with, to a point. There's going to be a lot of variation between species both in size and capabilities. True balance is going to be impossible or too much trouble."

Maybe just make certain species a certain assumed level. So a an adult trapdoor spider is a lvl 9 creature basic. To play a trapdoor spider in a lower leveled game, start with a juvinile spider to be more on a level with ants, etc. If we make level 5 for example the base level, then we can have level one creatures as low threat enemies from the start, and it would allow the weaker species to take for example 3 levels of upgrades to 'catch up'.

I think it might be good to split social into to stats - Social and Intimidate, maybe?

[Quest Lord]

IMHO intimidate would work like a skill, not be based off a stat. Because no matter how much your ant levels up, he ain't scaring off a hornet wasp. . . Actually, could SIZE be the base stat for intimidate? FUCK YOU, I'M HUEG. . .

But honestly I think inimidate should be a number of skills. Eye-markings for wings would scare off birds, I taste like shit colouring would scare off most predators. Intimidation in the insect world is done by a) being a threat to that species or b) looking like something else that is a threat to that species. So mimicry: [Species] would allow you to to that kind of intimidate.

[Alpharius]

SO. Pros and cons of each system.

D6: Simple - Maybe too simple? Seems like it would restrict the potential for high-level campaigns.
D10: Never played a game that used it, but it may allow for enough variation without being overwhelming. Not sure, though.
D20: Typical D&D system, seems like it may be a decent fit, keeping variation from getting too crazy while still allowing for it to exist in decent amounts.
D%: LOTS of room for characters to grow, but perhaps a little too confusing for newer players.

Personally, I'm stuck between D20 and D%.

[Sasha]

IMHO intimidate would work like a skill, not be based off a stat. Because no matter how much your ant levels up, he ain't scaring off a hornet wasp. . . Actually, could SIZE be the base stat for intimidate? FUCK YOU, I'M HUEG. . .

But honestly I think inimidate should be a number of skills. Eye-markings for wings would scare off birds, I taste like shit colouring would scare off most predators. Intimidation in the insect world is done by a) being a threat to that species or b) looking like something else that is a threat to that species. So mimicry: [Species] would allow you to to that kind of intimidate.

That's a damn good idea. Maybe have bonuses to the skill based on optional skills? I can see "eye markings" as a viable bonus added to "wings". This system is obviously going to need a good amount of DM discretion - but that's the way a good number of systems work anyway, so no problem there.

[Quest Lord]

Have the skill look like

Eye Markings:
Requirements: Wings (Large)
The species has large eye markings on its wings with which to scare off potential predators. etc. etc.

And the skill would only be available to moths/butterflies.

[Bees]

And the skill would only be available to moths/butterflies.

Not quite! Moths/butterflies definitely should be able to get it for cheaper though.

[Sasha]

I'm going to take some time to read the BRP - I think a generic rule-set is a good start, but I'm not sure just how generic that is.

I myself am not a big fan of level-based systems, but it looks like there's a lot of support for making this level-based.

[BrokenMuse]

I'd love to see something largely classless and without levels, but I'll work with whatever. Going to skim through the books I have around here for ideas.

[Alpharius]

I'd love to see something largely classless and without levels, but I'll work with whatever. Going to skim through the books I have around here for ideas.

Speaking as someone who's created a system like this before, it's significantly harder to balance than something where you have the artificial controller that is the level system.

[Quest Lord]

Not quite! Moths/butterflies definitely should be able to get it for cheaper though.

Exception being this species, that gets it at a species level, not an order level.

Looked at the BRP, it'll need a lot of editing to make it fit what we need. Mainly because of the assumption that we're people. But it looks like the system itself might be lootable to a degree.

I think orders and species will become the equivalent to classes. However your class won't necessarily determine your role, as much as where you take it. A butterfly might focus on being a scout, with drab colours, and dropping a few size categories. Whereas another one might take some offensive powers and some healing/buff powers and be a more offensive type of character.

[RollFizz]

Based on the skills and stats shown so far, I propose:
*Consolidating the mental (power & intelligence) into one, or simply making it into an ability
*Size affects the Strength score due to Square/Cube law (as according to TV Tropes, at least.) Size has an effect on most things. (Possibly a larger creature has a higher strength, but less dexterity? A smaller creature has much better Hide checks, but a larger one does much better at grappling?)

To be honest, I know next to nothing about etymology, so forgive me if I say something absurd. These things make sense to me from a logical standpoint.

[BrokenMuse]

So it should be possible to create a night-black giant moth that drops pebbles as weapons. Excellent.

To be honest, I know next to nothing about etymology, so forgive me if I say something absurd. These things make sense to me from a logical standpoint.

Neither do I. This seems like a fun way to learn a few things though.

[Quest Lord]

I was a bug freak in primary school (waaaay back in the day. woah.) When pokemon was the rage, I was a self styled bug catcher. Since Bug > Psychic and everyone ran mewtwo, kedabra/alakazam, etc. I did fairly well. That's right, my buterfly pokemon just fucked up your mewtwo. Didn't expect a bug pokemon to know dreameater? Sucks to be you. . .

But on topic, I know shit all now, only slightly more then your average person. Wikipedia will likely be our partner in this endeavour.

No need for power IMHO, and size looks to be a big deal.

[Alpharius]

My first word was "Bug", and by the age of 3, I was already saying that I wanted to be an entomolygist (In those words)... That said, yeah, it's kind of fallen by the wayside for about a decade - Scaled up to reptiles - But yes, this is very much a process of (re)discovery.

[BrokenMuse]

I love tarantulas (and some spiders) so should be able to pull up some useful facts on them.

One thing to be thinking about is standardized terminology and how we refer to skills/abilities/whatever.

[Alpharius]

I love tarantulas (and some spiders) so should be able to pull up some useful facts on them.

One thing to be thinking about is standardized terminology and how we refer to skills/abilities/whatever.

Agreed, we need to decide on a fixed lexicon.

[Rollfizz]

"One thing to be thinking about is standardized terminology and how we refer to skills/abilities/whatever."
I'll probably look through a thesaurus and look for things that sound "buggy", in keeping with the arthropod theme of the game.
(Also, can you pretty please (if possible) verify Roll Fizzlebeef, Quest Lord? mail.com's bugging out and I can't access the email.)

[Quest Lord]

Lexicon:
Skills are split into being an:
Ability - something your bug can do. Whether it's flight, bite or formic spray, it's an ability.
Trait - passive abilities. You have a whole bunch of poisonous hairs over your body? It's a trait.
?


Also, I should have just verified you.

[Roll Fizzlebeef]

Lexicon:
Skills are split into being an:
Ability - something your bug can do. Whether it's flight, bite or formic spray, it's an ability.
Trait - passive abilities. You have a whole bunch of poisonous hairs over your body? It's a trait.
?


Also, I should have just verified you.

Thanks.

So stuff like Hide, etc. would count as abilities?

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