Re: Combat Thread

[Quest Lord]

Ah right.

How about a critical chance on the ag rolls? As a lot of the heavier armoured creatures would be impervious to anything the smaller weaker creatures could throw at them, perhaps have a hit with more than 5 degrees of success ignore exo? Just so that you could have the occasional story of how the tiny worker drone took down the rhino beetle in a one in a million attack etc...

Something like this. Representing going for the eyes or other weak spots.

[Naryzhud]

What do you reckon on the chances? Is 5 degrees of success a reasonable amount? Too common?

Also what about the action times of these attacks we have so far? Grapple and Crush probably shouldn't be available on the same turn for game balance sake, but neither make sense to be complex actions really... perhaps Grapple might be?

The basic bite/sting attack makes sense as just a single action with little discussion i reckon though.

[Quest Lord]

What do you reckon on the chances? Is 5 degrees of success a reasonable amount? Too common?

Maybe for every degree of success you ignore one point of exo? So it'd be harder for more armoured creatures, but still possible if you're fast/lucky enough. 1vs10 ignores all exo, always. That's a 1% chance, so not good odds, but that's for anyone, always. As the stats run from 1-100, the max exo bonus is 100, and most species won't get that, or anything close to it.

Also what about the action times of these attacks we have so far? Grapple and Crush probably shouldn't be available on the same turn for game balance sake, but neither make sense to be complex actions really... perhaps Grapple might be?

Hmmm, why not have them on the same turn? It's you damaging them as you grab them with your mandibles and grip hard.

The basic bite/sting attack makes sense as just a single action with little discussion i reckon though.

Indeed. Bite (1) would allow you to use a bite attack, bite (2) would just give you a +1 to hit +1 to damage modifier perhaps, etc. etc.
Same for sting.

[Naryzhud]

Maybe for every degree of success you ignore one point of exo? So it'd be harder for more armoured creatures, but still possible if you're fast/lucky enough. 1vs10 ignores all exo, always. That's a 1% chance, so not good odds, but that's for anyone, always. As the stats run from 1-100, the max exo bonus is 100, and most species won't get that, or anything close to it.

Works for me.

Also what about the action times of these attacks we have so far? Grapple and Crush probably shouldn't be available on the same turn for game balance sake, but neither make sense to be complex actions really... perhaps Grapple might be?

Hmmm, why not have them on the same turn? It's you damaging them as you grab them with your mandibles and grip hard.

Suppose so, can always test it out in beta and see how it goes...

The basic bite/sting attack makes sense as just a single action with little discussion i reckon though.

Indeed. Bite (1) would allow you to use a bite attack, bite (2) would just give you a +1 to hit +1 to damage modifier perhaps, etc. etc.
Same for sting.

I like this, have upgrades to your basic attacks making them more effective as well as trying to acquire cool new ones.

[Quest Lord]

I like this, have upgrades to your basic attacks making them more effective as well as trying to acquire cool new ones.

For stings you might upgrade the sting (more physical damage) the poison (more poison damage) or add effects to the poison (alarm pheromones for example) which can in turn be upgraded. Gives you a lot of options to play with.

[Alpharius]

I like this, have upgrades to your basic attacks making them more effective as well as trying to acquire cool new ones.

For stings you might upgrade the sting (more physical damage) the poison (more poison damage) or add effects to the poison (alarm pheromones for example) which can in turn be upgraded. Gives you a lot of options to play with.

Also provides some of the variety that the game lacks due to the loss of gear.

[Arachnid Knight]

I'm not so sure about just using pinchers, pheremones, and stingers. Don;t you think intellegent insects would be able to use tools? Plus, it could add a new gameplay mechanic. Upgrading chithin could be done with certain resins possibly?

As for weaponry, imagine an ant soldier charging a ferocious crow with a spear made from a porcupine quill tied to a toothpick, or a Goliath beetle weilding a hammer made from a round pebble tied to a bleached chicken bone. I honestly think that by eliminating weaponry entirely we greatly detriment customisability in characters.

[BrokenMuse]

With Crush, what would it do? Count as a critical/do extra damage or insta-kill? The latter shouldn't take just one action to do.

Melee should have different classes of damage depending on the attacking body part. Something like normal (nothing different), piercing (ignores some Exo) something blunt (chance of knockback).

[Alpharius]

I'm not so sure about just using pinchers, pheremones, and stingers. Don;t you think intellegent insects would be able to use tools? Plus, it could add a new gameplay mechanic. Upgrading chithin could be done with certain resins possibly?

As for weaponry, imagine an ant soldier charging a ferocious crow with a spear made from a porcupine quill tied to a toothpick, or a Goliath beetle weilding a hammer made from a round pebble tied to a bleached chicken bone. I honestly think that by eliminating weaponry entirely we greatly detriment customisability in characters.

How is an insect going to hold a weapon in such a way that it could effectively bring it to bear?

That said, simple things like resin are certainly not a bad idea.

[Quest Lord]

In the first thread on /tg/ we kind of clicked to the idea that we were going to avoid anthropomorphic arthropods. Instead, we're bugs, with minimum handwavium needed for a PnP RPG to work.

I don't mind resin either actually.

Some wasps use pebbles/sticks as tools, I think they'll get tool usage as a skill, but everyone else has to do without.

I had crush as being just an attack, but if somoene has a better idea, bring it out. I was just getting the ball rolling, feel free to suggest alternatives, etc.

[Naryzhud]

How about special attacks then? For example Formic spray could be a complex action that requires grapple advantage, and then you roll an opposed Fex check to see if you can aim it at them. Damage would be Acid (x) - Exo depending on how high a level your acid was.

[Quest Lord]

How about special attacks then? For example Formic spray could be a complex action that requires grapple advantage, and then you roll an opposed Fex check to see if you can aim it at them. Damage would be Acid (x) - Exo depending on how high a level your acid was.

Yeah, something like that. Ants in particular seem to grab and then spray. Although it should be able to be used in a neutral grapple situation - just not when you have grapple disadvantage.

[Naryzhud]

Perhaps grapple advantage could give you a bonus to hit then? And maybe have the possibility of using it when at disadvantage but with a penalty to hit?

[Arachnid Knight]

I'm not so sure about just using pinchers, pheremones, and stingers. Don;t you think intellegent insects would be able to use tools? Plus, it could add a new gameplay mechanic. Upgrading chithin could be done with certain resins possibly?

As for weaponry, imagine an ant soldier charging a ferocious crow with a spear made from a porcupine quill tied to a toothpick, or a Goliath beetle weilding a hammer made from a round pebble tied to a bleached chicken bone. I honestly think that by eliminating weaponry entirely we greatly detriment customisability in characters.

How is an insect going to hold a weapon in such a way that it could effectively bring it to bear?

That said, simple things like resin are certainly not a bad idea.

Well they dont nescesarilyl need to be weapons as we see them, something to tie to the end of a stinger or something to dip your claws in would be a good idea. But civilization itself counts on tool usage. You don't think one sentient ant in an army of a million would get the idea of creating a lever or something like a pulley, which would spread? We're talking massive probability here. We should not rule out tool use entirely.

[Alpharius]

I'm not so sure about just using pinchers, pheremones, and stingers. Don;t you think intellegent insects would be able to use tools? Plus, it could add a new gameplay mechanic. Upgrading chithin could be done with certain resins possibly?

As for weaponry, imagine an ant soldier charging a ferocious crow with a spear made from a porcupine quill tied to a toothpick, or a Goliath beetle weilding a hammer made from a round pebble tied to a bleached chicken bone. I honestly think that by eliminating weaponry entirely we greatly detriment customisability in characters.

How is an insect going to hold a weapon in such a way that it could effectively bring it to bear?

That said, simple things like resin are certainly not a bad idea.

Well they dont nescesarilyl need to be weapons as we see them, something to tie to the end of a stinger or something to dip your claws in would be a good idea. But civilization itself counts on tool usage. You don't think one sentient ant in an army of a million would get the idea of creating a lever or something like a pulley, which would spread? We're talking massive probability here. We should not rule out tool use entirely.

The thing is, while it may make sense for tools to exist in some form, anything that requires the use of thumbs to create/use is going to be out of place. How do you tie things with no thumbs? Spiders might be able to affix a spine to your claw, but my and large complex tools are out.

[Arachnid Knight]

Alright, it makes sense, so then spiders, scorpions, or maybe even crabs would make for weaponsmiths then? Able to fasten weaponry to an insects claws, stingers, or limbs then?

Also, what about animals with pinchers, stag beetles, scorpions, and crustaceans? Would they be able to use weaponry, or would they rely on their natural ability?

[Alpharius]

Alright, it makes sense, so then spiders, scorpions, or maybe even crabs would make for weaponsmiths then? Able to fasten weaponry to an insects claws, stingers, or limbs then?

Also, what about animals with pinchers, stag beetles, scorpions, and crustaceans? Would they be able to use weaponry, or would they rely on their natural ability?

Depends on the weapon, I guess. I mean, yeah, things with claws can pick up twigs and what have you, but are those really going to be more useful than the claws that're holding them in most cases?

[Arachnid Knight]

Hurl a spear into the water, and you can catch a fish quicker and easier than just waiting for one to die and feasting off that.

[Alpharius]

Hurl a spear into the water, and you can catch a fish quicker and easier than just waiting for one to die and feasting off that.

I would characterize that as a very situational use for a weapon, and even then, on an insect scale, not a terribly effective method.

You'd have to be pretty damn large to be able to spear a fish of any size reliably, AND be able to drag it out of the water.

[BrokenMuse]

Alpharius beat me to it, but whatever.

And how is it going to get a stick, sharpen it enough to do something, find a water source with that isn't too deep, spot a fish, hit and kill it and retrieve the body? It'd be like a person fashioning a spear and hunting for dolphins. While wearing mittens.

Any bug that can hunt fish already has the natural equipment and ability to do so. Bugs that can't have other food sources and the capability to get that food.

And where's the bug going to get that idea? Tool use seems a bit too human, and we're trying to keep the bugs from being like that.

[Alpharius]

Alpharius beat me to it, but whatever.

And how is it going to get a stick, sharpen it enough to do something, find a water source with that isn't too deep, spot a fish, hit and kill it and retrieve the body? It'd be like a person fashioning a spear and hunting for dolphins. While wearing mittens.

Any bug that can hunt fish already has the natural equipment and ability to do so. Bugs that can't have other food sources and the capability to get that food.

And where's the bug going to get that idea? Tool use seems a bit too human, and we're trying to keep the bugs from being like that.

Yeah, we want to avoid making this game to insects what furries are to regular animals, at least in the sense of overanthropomorphizing them.

[BrokenMuse]

Some combat actions to think about:
-All-out attack: a focus on causing hurt at the expense of a reduced defense.
-Dodge/Total defense: By doing nothing but avoiding attacks and rolling with the hits, damage is reduced or even fully averted. Can be improved with certain abilities.
-Charge: By combining running and an attack, the attacker can do more damage, knock its opponent over or push them aside.
-Run/Sprint: Move several times regular walking speed. Cannot attack unless Charging.
-Dive Bomb: A flier swoops down from above. Similar to a Charge?
-Trip/Flip: Knock down or turn over an opponent.
-Defend: Instead of attacking, the bug helps block attacks aimed at another, instead taking the damage (if any).

[Bogleech]

Bugs are tools. What one species doesn't have the right claws, mouthparts or chemicals for, it can probably get another species to do for it, in exchange for some other service. This makes for a civilization that's very human in one way, but alien in another.

Widespread use of manufactured tools would leave us with just the human half, taking away what makes the different species unique and would otherwise force them to work together. If they can all make equivalent tools and weapons, we would too easily get into "species wars," which I for one am absolutely sick of in fantasy and science fiction.

[Naryzhud]

Definitely, i'm against the idea of them having anything tool-like as that's part of the charm of the game... it's so utterly different from the hundreds of others out there. Even the resin idea from before seems odd because a lot of the insects that might gain benefit from it rely on their mobility or flight and the resin would limit that severely...

[Quest Lord]

Tool use will be a skill, only take-able by certain insects that use tools (ie pebbles) irl. Some wasps iirc.

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