Brainstorming

[Quest Lord]

So far we have that it's a post apoc. setting, where you play as bugs. Humans are rare, as are most larger animals. We're using radiation/chemicals to hand-wave away our sentience, by extension our mixed species groups, etc. That's all we have thus far, so I figured I'd open this up to throwing ideas every which way.

[Alpharius]

In my opinion, the mutation aspect should be kept out of the game's mechanics by and large, used primarily as a plot device to explain sentient insects that can cooperate outside their own species. No crazy radiation-induced super powers or anything.

That said... Insect culture(s). Do they have any? Do they differ from one species to the next? And, on a semi-related note, what's the loot analogue? Would a party enter a dungeon and be able to reasonably expect any items of worth, or is it primarily an EXP-gaining exercise? Personally, I'm against the idea of items - It sort of ruins the flavor of the setting, in my mind. Maybe things like food, healing potions (Honeydew, for instance), but nothing like equipment or clothing.

[Quest Lord]

In my opinion, the mutation aspect should be kept out of the game's mechanics by and large, used primarily as a plot device to explain sentient insects that can cooperate outside their own species. No crazy radiation-induced super powers or anything.

That said... Insect culture(s). Do they have any? Do they differ from one species to the next? And, on a semi-related note, what's the loot analogue? Would a party enter a dungeon and be able to reasonably expect any items of worth, or is it primarily an EXP-gaining exercise? Personally, I'm against the idea of items - It sort of ruins the flavor of the setting, in my mind. Maybe things like food, healing potions (Honeydew, for instance), but nothing like equipment or clothing.

This. I agree entirely.

Mutation as a handwave to explain the stuff that makes an RPG work.

Cultures: If we have them, based on the species. Ants for example have a social culture, being by and large communists. Spiders are generally just hanging around, doing their own thing, dislikes/dispised by their prey species, etc.

Items: Food, honeydew, etc. No items that can be crafted, or anything like that. Since food is the only item of worth, trade is minor, only being for various food types that are rarer/prized (honeydew for example). If you kill a rat, your prise is the rat's corpse. Food for all, exp all around, and maybe some fame and standing with the local ant nest.

[BrokenMuse]

Personally I think there shouldn't be a canon explanation as to why the bugs are the way they are.

I like the idea of a Redwall-esque setup. Bugs are smart enough to be self-aware (some more than others) and capable of communicating with each other. The only cities would be the ones ants and termites live in.

Goods could be resources like Alpharius said, along with intangibles such as services and information (where food is, how to avoid the Weaver). Bugs would go out for a variety of reasons: the Ant looking for a new colony site, the Beetle trying to show off his prowess to a mate, the Butterfly to live as full a life possible before expiring.

[Alpharius]

As far as the typical adventuring staples, I think rotting logs and the undersides of rocks make good taverns (towns?), and as someone said in the thread, large corpses could make interesting dungeons... Sort of monotonous, but there's plenty of other ways to go about making a dungeon (Groundhog's burrow?)

[Quest Lord]

Again, agree. Rotting corpses could also be an equivalent to mining towns during a gold rush - food everywhere, but it won't last.

Dungeons would depend largely on what the BBEG at the end is. Evil Queen Ant: Ant nest. Scary spider lord: Climbing the tree to get to his web at the top. Anteater: His burrow. Some would be more dungeons, and others be more of a single confrontation locale.

[BrokenMuse]

There's also the environment as a source of adventure. When the rain gets heavy, rushing to safe ground can be a challenge. Especially when you aren't the only ones with the same idea.

[Alpharius]

I could see sewers making for interesting campaign locales... And boss battles on ponds could be a nice way to mix things up.

[Quest Lord]

I could see sewers making for interesting campaign locales... And boss battles on ponds could be a nice way to mix things up.

The waterwalker that's been useless all game comes into his own, suddenly becoming your star player.

[Alpharius]

I could see sewers making for interesting campaign locales... And boss battles on ponds could be a nice way to mix things up.

The waterwalker that's been useless all game comes into his own, suddenly becoming your star player.

Can waterwalkers even survive outside of ponds?

[Quest Lord]

I could see sewers making for interesting campaign locales... And boss battles on ponds could be a nice way to mix things up.

The waterwalker that's been useless all game comes into his own, suddenly becoming your star player.

Can waterwalkers even survive outside of ponds?

No idea. Probably not normally, but who cares. Ants normally can't survive alone, but our ones will. TO WIKIPEDIA!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerridae

[captainbeer]

I was trying to think of reasons why a character would want to go through a particularly dangerous place like a corpse or a sewer besides just food. And I thought: information.

Now this may be more of a 'core setting plot hook', but perhaps there's a rarely seen race of insect that is believed to be a sort of 'wish-granter' species. Maybe they have the uncanny ability to find honeydew before anyone else or can accurately find their way across dozens of miles to a specific points while instinctively knowing safe paths and stuff. So this nomadic race of insects is often sought or even hunted for in order to try and understand their secrets or just capture them.

[Alpharius]

I was trying to think of reasons why a character would want to go through a particularly dangerous place like a corpse or a sewer besides just food. And I thought: information.

Now this may be more of a 'core setting plot hook', but perhaps there's a rarely seen race of insect that is believed to be a sort of 'wish-granter' species. Maybe they have the uncanny ability to find honeydew before anyone else or can accurately find their way across dozens of miles to a specific points while instinctively knowing safe paths and stuff. So this nomadic race of insects is often sought or even hunted for in order to try and understand their secrets or just capture them.

A good idea, but it also raises a good point - Are there alignments in this game? Which species are the archetypal villains? Etc etc.

[captainbeer]

A good idea, but it also raises a good point - Are there alignments in this game? Which species are the archetypal villains? Etc etc.

Japanese Hornet. Always evil, all the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Hornet

[Alpharius]

A good idea, but it also raises a good point - Are there alignments in this game? Which species are the archetypal villains? Etc etc.

Japanese Hornet. Always evil, all the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Hornet

Japanese Hornets everywhere? That certainly sounds like an apocalypse to me.

[Quest Lord]

Alignments relitive, etc. Prey species dislike predators. So a fly might think of spiders as evil. Spiders think of wasps as evil, etc. To the spiders, eating others is normal social behaviour. But laying your eggs inside other bugs? That's just cruel and immoral! Bees might be the good guys, social, etc. Ants could be the social animal bad guys, but only relatively. A spider or another predatory species won't think less of them, and aphids would like them (trade relationship).

[BrokenMuse]

A good idea, but it also raises a good point - Are there alignments in this game? Which species are the archetypal villains? Etc etc.

No alignments or designated villains. Everyone's trying to survive but there's exceptions like the picky spider or the army ants devouring everything. Characters should have motivations/driving impulses though.

[captainbeer]

One big thing I think that needs to be settled is how insect-like are these insects going to be? Is it going to be straight insects doing insect things? A more RedWall set up like mentioned earlier?

For straight up sentient insects it seems to enforce that any party is going to have to be made up of the same insects as the social structure of just about any species is just that species. While this could limit 'creativity' in the fact that each member will have to be the same bug, plenty of other variations can be allowed: both physical and mental. Also it would be good for fleshing out a specific species' qualities.

In the RedWall-esqe setting there would be more opportunity for multiple insect interactions, such as common prey banding together to combine their defenses. This would lead to a much more diverse political and social field, allowing for diplomacy to be brought in along with the concept of true 'wars'.

I'm not sure which type I like more, but I'm kinda leaning towards a more integrated bug society.

[Alpharius]

One big thing I think that needs to be settled is how insect-like are these insects going to be? Is it going to be straight insects doing insect things? A more RedWall set up like mentioned earlier?

For straight up sentient insects it seems to enforce that any party is going to have to be made up of the same insects as the social structure of just about any species is just that species. While this could limit 'creativity' in the fact that each member will have to be the same bug, plenty of other variations can be allowed: both physical and mental. Also it would be good for fleshing out a specific species' qualities.

In the RedWall-esqe setting there would be more opportunity for multiple insect interactions, such as common prey banding together to combine their defenses. This would lead to a much more diverse political and social field, allowing for diplomacy to be brought in along with the concept of true 'wars'.

I'm not sure which type I like more, but I'm kinda leaning towards a more integrated bug society.

I guess it depends on what you mean when you say Redwall. I've read the first 14 books, and really, the only difference I see between sentient and Redwall is anthropomorphizing the animals to the point where they can wield tools, and then them using those tools to do things (create structures, clothes, weapons) that are generally human territory.

[captainbeer]

I guess it depends on what you mean when you say Redwall. I've read the first 14 books, and really, the only difference I see between sentient and Redwall is anthropomorphizing the animals to the point where they can wield tools, and then them using those tools to do things (create structures, clothes, weapons) that are generally human territory.

Right well, I don't know about using tools or such but let me define what I mean like this:

Bugs with current social structure: most species keep to themselves and almost exclusively have social interactions that only involve themselves. (Isolationist)

Or

Bugs with an integrated social structure: prey species may work together to keep away predator species that may also band together. (Don't know what single word would be good at describing this)

[BrokenMuse]

I think it works best if the bugs aren't too intelligent or cooperative. Mingling would occur in times of great stress/danger or opportunity (aforementioned fresh kills). Other times self-interest would cause inter-species cooperation to be strained if not falling apart due to competition for food and space.

Of course, PCs tend to the be exception to the norms. Outcasts, weirdos and others who don't care that a traveling companion usually eats his kind.

[Alpharius]

I guess it depends on what you mean when you say Redwall. I've read the first 14 books, and really, the only difference I see between sentient and Redwall is anthropomorphizing the animals to the point where they can wield tools, and then them using those tools to do things (create structures, clothes, weapons) that are generally human territory.

Right well, I don't know about using tools or such but let me define what I mean like this:

Bugs with current social structure: most species keep to themselves and almost exclusively have social interactions that only involve themselves. (Isolationist)

Or

Bugs with an integrated social structure: prey species may work together to keep away predator species that may also band together. (Don't know what single word would be good at describing this)

That makes a lot more sense, and I can get behind that, so long as it's not rigid (Which, by its very nature, I would guess it isn't.) It'd suck to be a carnivore, and when the party heads to an anthill to spend the night, you're never, ever going to be let in.

[BrokenMuse]

That makes a lot more sense, and I can get behind that, so long as it\'s not rigid (Which, by its very nature, I would guess it isn\'t.) It\'d suck to be a carnivore, and when the party heads to an anthill to spend the night, you\'re never, ever going to be let in.

One more reason to do good deeds. Get a good rep and you\'ll be let into the colony. Or take the ant mimic spider class. Just don\'t botch any rolls.

Or around more populous colonies, would predator communities crop up? Little shelters with uneasy predators all eying one another, hungry and paranoid?

[Quest Lord]

Somewhere in between the two, definately. So maybe societies are generally 1 species, with places like damp logs, mouldy heaps of leaf litter, etc. being the exceptions, where different species will interact more often. Sure, they'll talk, but if a preying mantis catches himself prey, it's still noms. . . Maybe they might act more civilised in 'towns' etc where the smaller bugs can take it by strength of numbers, but outside of there, other bugs are just food. Predators should be lone wolves for the most part, not interested in societies, and spread out. Maybe make them always chaotic evil, not so much because they're "evil", but because in order to live, they have to eat other people and are running on a different system of morals. . .

[Quest Lord]

[quote="BrokenMuse"]

Or around more populous colonies, would predator communities crop up? Little shelters with uneasy predators all eying one another, hungry and paranoid?

Sure, but they'd be rare. And oh so paranoid. Think of it as the wild west frontier. Predators are outlaws.

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