Re: Brainstorming

[Arachnid Knight]

I had a bit of an idea, what if the lady-beetles of this game were like raiders or cattle rustlers?
They swoop down and steal aphids to devour, much to the ants dismay, making a fairly "Cute" species of bug into our equivocal Kobold, a nice first level enemy for the heroes to take on.

Also, we should not rule out some form of mysticysm, it does not need to be "my ant casts fireball" but maybe someting like the queen of an ant colony that can supposedly see what is yet to happen, or a monastary of all mantid warrior women who have mastered mind over matter.

[Alpharius]

I had a bit of an idea, what if the lady-beetles of this game were like raiders or cattle rustlers?
They swoop down and steal aphids to devour, much to the ants dismay, making a fairly "Cute" species of bug into our equivocal Kobold, a nice first level enemy for the heroes to take on.

Also, we should not rule out some form of mysticysm, it does not need to be "my ant casts fireball" but maybe someting like the queen of an ant colony that can supposedly see what is yet to happen, or a monastary of all mantid warrior women who have mastered mind over matter.

Ladybugs as Kobolds sounds interesting...

I like a lot of the stuff we've come up with, not necessarily the species cultures, but the rarer things, like spider historian-monks and the like.

[Quest Lord]

I belive someone mentioned alignments. Amazonian ants; always chaotic evil, spiders; lawful evil, social insects; lawful neutral,

Social ------ Isolated
Carnivore ------ Herbivore

Were looking to be the alignments.

Army ants, always social carnivore.
Spiders, Isolated carnivore

Not sure where to put Amazonian ants. Carnivore Neutral?

[Bogleech]

I think the equivalent to magical powers could be living symbionts. Some insects may have learned to communicate with bacteria, protozoa, fungi, mites and worms living in or on their bodies for various (reasonable) effects. Not like energy blasts and insta-healing, but stuff like releasing a cloud of blinding spores or delivering an infection through your bite attack. You could command parasitic nematodes like hidden, biting tentacles, or send them into an enemy body to puppet them a little.

[Naryzhud]

Im not sure i'm keen on having that sort of thing in the main canon rules, but definitely worth dedicating an appendix of optional rules to...

I like some of these other ideas though, especially the spider monks...

[Alpharius]

I think Social/Neutral/Isolated can be the "Lawful-Chaotic" axis equivalent, with Herbivore/Omnivore/Carnivore forming the "Good-Evil" axis.

[Quest Lord]

I think Social/Neutral/Isolated can be the "Lawful-Chaotic" axis equivalent, with Herbivore/Omnivore/Carnivore forming the "Good-Evil" axis.

Agreed.

[Naryzhud]

I think Social/Neutral/Isolated can be the "Lawful-Chaotic" axis equivalent, with Herbivore/Omnivore/Carnivore forming the "Good-Evil" axis.

Agreed.

Thirded, and presumably settled then.

[ChickenSpider]

keep the flies sentient. They seem like drunk-ass crazy russian pilots in my head

YES, YES! When I DM, I'm going to give all of the flies russian accents!

[Grawflemaul]

I suppose it's something of a crunch issue as well, but we may as well settle it now.

What about tool use?

Right now, certain species of digger wasps already use small stones to pound their nests into solid walls, so when adding sentience, it would seem strange if they and other insects didn't start to use other basic tools too. Obviously, I'm not talking smithies and metal-working, but they could have the beginnings of carpentry going on. The predators can't get through that bark substance quickly, so if we removed some of it from the tree and held it in place over our nests, that would buy us some time. Maybe you could convince that somewhat friendly spider to spin you some silk to strap some thorns to your front legs so you can stab your enemies, rather than relying on your mandibles, at a cost of slowing yourself down.

Maybe Tool Use (Speciality) could be a special skill or talent, to keep it fairly uncommon and interesting.

[Quest Lord]

I suppose it's something of a crunch issue as well, but we may as well settle it now.

What about tool use?

Right now, certain species of digger wasps already use small stones to pound their nests into solid walls, so when adding sentience, it would seem strange if they and other insects didn't start to use other basic tools too. Obviously, I'm not talking smithies and metal-working, but they could have the beginnings of carpentry going on. The predators can't get through that bark substance quickly, so if we removed some of it from the tree and held it in place over our nests, that would buy us some time. Maybe you could convince that somewhat friendly spider to spin you some silk to strap some thorns to your front legs so you can stab your enemies, rather than relying on your mandibles, at a cost of slowing yourself down.

Maybe Tool Use (Speciality) could be a special skill or talent, to keep it fairly uncommon and interesting.

Outside of species that use it, I don't think it would occur to them

[Grawflemaul]

I suppose it's something of a crunch issue as well, but we may as well settle it now.

What about tool use?

Right now, certain species of digger wasps already use small stones to pound their nests into solid walls, so when adding sentience, it would seem strange if they and other insects didn't start to use other basic tools too. Obviously, I'm not talking smithies and metal-working, but they could have the beginnings of carpentry going on. The predators can't get through that bark substance quickly, so if we removed some of it from the tree and held it in place over our nests, that would buy us some time. Maybe you could convince that somewhat friendly spider to spin you some silk to strap some thorns to your front legs so you can stab your enemies, rather than relying on your mandibles, at a cost of slowing yourself down.

Maybe Tool Use (Speciality) could be a special skill or talent, to keep it fairly uncommon and interesting.

Outside of species that use it, I don't think it would occur to them

But why not? I mean, if these arthropods are smart enough to start forming communities outside their species and going on little adventures with a diverse band of insects, why wouldn't they be smart enough to see someone else doing something and start to copy it?

Maybe I'm just fundamentally misunderstanding the difference between social intelligence and tool-using intelligence, but it seems like there'll be a bit of a disconnect there.

Oh, and also, I'm betting most of the economy will be based on barter and favours. I was just thinking about that though, and it seems to me that, when dealing with predators, a good currency is insect life. An ant colony might hire a spider to spin webs to set as traps for its enemies, in exchange for a set income of larvae and ants for it to eat.

When life is cheap, death sometimes has a price. And life is very, very cheap in Arthropocalypse.

[Sasha]

I suppose it's something of a crunch issue as well, but we may as well settle it now.

What about tool use?

Right now, certain species of digger wasps already use small stones to pound their nests into solid walls, so when adding sentience, it would seem strange if they and other insects didn't start to use other basic tools too. Obviously, I'm not talking smithies and metal-working, but they could have the beginnings of carpentry going on. The predators can't get through that bark substance quickly, so if we removed some of it from the tree and held it in place over our nests, that would buy us some time. Maybe you could convince that somewhat friendly spider to spin you some silk to strap some thorns to your front legs so you can stab your enemies, rather than relying on your mandibles, at a cost of slowing yourself down.

Maybe Tool Use (Speciality) could be a special skill or talent, to keep it fairly uncommon and interesting.

Outside of species that use it, I don't think it would occur to them

But why not? I mean, if these arthropods are smart enough to start forming communities outside their species and going on little adventures with a diverse band of insects, why wouldn't they be smart enough to see someone else doing something and start to copy it?

Maybe I'm just fundamentally misunderstanding the difference between social intelligence and tool-using intelligence, but it seems like there'll be a bit of a disconnect there.

Oh, and also, I'm betting most of the economy will be based on barter and favours. I was just thinking about that though, and it seems to me that, when dealing with predators, a good currency is insect life. An ant colony might hire a spider to spin webs to set as traps for its enemies, in exchange for a set income of larvae and ants for it to eat.

When life is cheap, death sometimes has a price. And life is very, very cheap in Arthropocalypse.

Tools seem like a good idea to me, but it's important to remember that insects, by and large, don't have anything resembling thumbs - and they would have to deal with the "graininess" of items on their level.

keep the flies sentient. They seem like drunk-ass crazy russian pilots in my head

YES, YES! When I DM, I'm going to give all of the flies russian accents!

Greatest. Idea. Ever.

[Grawflemaul]

Tools seem like a good idea to me, but it's important to remember that insects, by and large, don't have anything resembling thumbs - and they would have to deal with the "graininess" of items on their level.

That's why I'm saying keep the tools very simple and primitive. Spider silk, being a really useful adhesive could be the key for allowing other insects to carry and wield basic tools and weapons. Flying insects could drop small pebbles on their enemies.

Beyond wooden spears, tiny thorns as daggers and stones as bombs, I'm struggling to think of other simple, tiny tools though.

[Sasha]

Tools seem like a good idea to me, but it's important to remember that insects, by and large, don't have anything resembling thumbs - and they would have to deal with the "graininess" of items on their level.

That's why I'm saying keep the tools very simple and primitive. Spider silk, being a really useful adhesive could be the key for allowing other insects to carry and wield basic tools and weapons. Flying insects could drop small pebbles on their enemies.

Beyond wooden spears, tiny thorns as daggers and stones as bombs, I'm struggling to think of other simple, tiny tools though.

Simple buildings and shelters would probably actually be easier for them to create than personal tools - I like the idae of spider-silk adhesive and rope, which leads the way to things like grapnels and lassos.

[BrokenMuse]

I thought the idea was to not make bugs too human? They have intelligence enough to communicate and get along. Why do they need tools? If a bug needs something, it already has ways to get it.

[Grawflemaul]

Oh, I'm all for making sure the bugs are inhuman. All I'm saying is that it will seem a little odd that these supposedly sentient and intelligent creatures won't make the jump to primitive tool use, especially if they're regularly interacting with insects whose natural abilities allow them to perform a certain task when they can't. What happens when a player tries to make a fairly sensible leap of deduction?

Besides, tool use isn't a particularly human trait. Spiders, especially, could be considered expert tool users in arthropod terms, from spinning little parachutes, to the webs that make them famous. Some wasps use stones to batter the walls of their burrows. And I'm sure there's more.

Obviously, we're only talking really primitive stuff here.

[Sasha]

I think that tool use is a good idea, but it's important that it not just imitate human 'tech - I doubt they would really come up with, say, a sword, for example - there aren't any bugs that have the physiology to use one. Spears, on the other hand, just make sense - there are enough species out there with natural piercing weapons that it just makes sense.

[Grawflemaul]

I think that tool use is a good idea, but it's important that it not just imitate human 'tech - I doubt they would really come up with, say, a sword, for example - there aren't any bugs that have the physiology to use one. Spears, on the other hand, just make sense - there are enough species out there with natural piercing weapons that it just makes sense.

This. The most obvious way that tool use would be inspired is through watching other arthropods carry out tasks. Seeing the effectiveness of a wasp's stinger, say, might lead them to come up with the idea of spears, or daggers, maybe by breaking off those thorns from the branches. Watching spiders climb on their strands of silk might lead to the use of ropes and grappling hooks.

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